Post by Bluepixel on Sept 12, 2020 18:09:04 GMT -5
Hi there, Firstly, I never really made a good 'departure' and haven't returned to the forum since. I want to apologize for that.
On to the question, what is the value of modern BASIC today?
Now, I no longer use Liberty BASIC. Since the last thread I had posted, which was ironically my introduction, I have not used
any dialect of BASIC, except on retro platforms such as the VIC-20. I have mostly been coding in C and Assembly. It is truly
a lot of fun, but on the other hand I also do miss BASIC, though I never felt that modernized BASIC provides the low level
access that I so desperately desire :P
I find BASIC very fun, it is a quick way of producing simple applications, and I absolutely love everything simple. This is also
a big reason my primary interest in computers lies with everything retro. However, C is also simple. In my opinion, C is tiny.
C is a fun language to me, it is used on my favorite retro platform Unix. As mentioned above, C is tiny but it can still be quite a
difficult language at times, but that doesn't change the fact that you can very quickly learn all there is to C. it's just about how
good you are at using it. C provides all the low level access that I desire, and I don't have to worry about lack of functionality
and performance.
However, even though I have been coding in C, I have still tried to keep in touch with BASIC, by writing it on retro platforms,
and even trying to create my own interpreters and emulators. Why? Because I feel like I never solved my dilemma between
C and BASIC. I feel like modern BASIC just can not be compared to the power that C gives, I just feel like there is no worry
about lacking functionality or performance, everything is at hand, whenever and wherever you need it to be. However, this
is not where BASIC shines. No, BASIC is not highly performant or low-level. Instead, I think where BASIC truly shines is it's
simplicity and quick use. Creating code is not as difficult as it might be with lower level languages, or as time consuming.
Liberty BASIC allows for creating powerfull applications in a small amount of time.
Unfortunately however, this is not what I'm looking for. When I'm using BASIC, I'm always on my toes trying not to step on
the wrong floorboard. I try to optimize my code manually through disassembling my programs, and excluding objects in the
linker. Not to mention I can not even use Liberty BASIC. I am on Linux, so the only real option here is to use FreeBASIC.
Now I know I can run Liberty BASIC through wine (A Windows sub-system, not an emulator!), however this just doesn't feel
right. I miss some of the fun I had with using BASIC dialects, I have never been more proud of myself creating a console
game in BBC Basic back in the day, but I don't feel the same joy achieving 3D in OpenGL. Well, sort of. Of course I'm happy
with the results, I enjoy the process of coding it and I am still proud of my achievement. However, when I'm using C, people
are constantly judging me by any bad code and shaming me for it instead of showing me how to improve it. When I even
mention BASIC to my friends I only get concerns about me going back to using it, so I have no choice to lock myself away
from using BASIC. Also, apparently 'goto' is illegal now. Everything is a competition.
Because of this I have many burnouts, weekly. I find it very hard to get myself to start coding since I simply have no motivation.
However, when I was using BASIC I couldn't do anything but code. I would forget having breakfast, lunch, until I realize I had
been working on this program for over 4 hours, even though it only felt like 10 minutes. Why am I posting to the Liberty BASIC
forum even though I no longer use it? Because this place still feels like home. The people here are very welcoming, nice and
supportive. So I wanted to share this topic, and get your opinion on this. If you have read this far, thank you for reading my
uninteresting wall of text (It's a bad habit of mine), and thank you for the support.
Truth is, it's one or the other. BASIC can not produce low-level functionality, but this does not mean BASIC is not powerfull. The
true power of BASIC lies with it's simplicity and quick use. Unfortunately, this also comes with downsides, which have left me in
this dilemma for ages.
Thank you for listening, I will still be reading and posting replies on this thread, however this might still be my last thread. So
I at least want to give a proper goodbye.
Cheers!
On to the question, what is the value of modern BASIC today?
Now, I no longer use Liberty BASIC. Since the last thread I had posted, which was ironically my introduction, I have not used
any dialect of BASIC, except on retro platforms such as the VIC-20. I have mostly been coding in C and Assembly. It is truly
a lot of fun, but on the other hand I also do miss BASIC, though I never felt that modernized BASIC provides the low level
access that I so desperately desire :P
I find BASIC very fun, it is a quick way of producing simple applications, and I absolutely love everything simple. This is also
a big reason my primary interest in computers lies with everything retro. However, C is also simple. In my opinion, C is tiny.
C is a fun language to me, it is used on my favorite retro platform Unix. As mentioned above, C is tiny but it can still be quite a
difficult language at times, but that doesn't change the fact that you can very quickly learn all there is to C. it's just about how
good you are at using it. C provides all the low level access that I desire, and I don't have to worry about lack of functionality
and performance.
However, even though I have been coding in C, I have still tried to keep in touch with BASIC, by writing it on retro platforms,
and even trying to create my own interpreters and emulators. Why? Because I feel like I never solved my dilemma between
C and BASIC. I feel like modern BASIC just can not be compared to the power that C gives, I just feel like there is no worry
about lacking functionality or performance, everything is at hand, whenever and wherever you need it to be. However, this
is not where BASIC shines. No, BASIC is not highly performant or low-level. Instead, I think where BASIC truly shines is it's
simplicity and quick use. Creating code is not as difficult as it might be with lower level languages, or as time consuming.
Liberty BASIC allows for creating powerfull applications in a small amount of time.
Unfortunately however, this is not what I'm looking for. When I'm using BASIC, I'm always on my toes trying not to step on
the wrong floorboard. I try to optimize my code manually through disassembling my programs, and excluding objects in the
linker. Not to mention I can not even use Liberty BASIC. I am on Linux, so the only real option here is to use FreeBASIC.
Now I know I can run Liberty BASIC through wine (A Windows sub-system, not an emulator!), however this just doesn't feel
right. I miss some of the fun I had with using BASIC dialects, I have never been more proud of myself creating a console
game in BBC Basic back in the day, but I don't feel the same joy achieving 3D in OpenGL. Well, sort of. Of course I'm happy
with the results, I enjoy the process of coding it and I am still proud of my achievement. However, when I'm using C, people
are constantly judging me by any bad code and shaming me for it instead of showing me how to improve it. When I even
mention BASIC to my friends I only get concerns about me going back to using it, so I have no choice to lock myself away
from using BASIC. Also, apparently 'goto' is illegal now. Everything is a competition.
Because of this I have many burnouts, weekly. I find it very hard to get myself to start coding since I simply have no motivation.
However, when I was using BASIC I couldn't do anything but code. I would forget having breakfast, lunch, until I realize I had
been working on this program for over 4 hours, even though it only felt like 10 minutes. Why am I posting to the Liberty BASIC
forum even though I no longer use it? Because this place still feels like home. The people here are very welcoming, nice and
supportive. So I wanted to share this topic, and get your opinion on this. If you have read this far, thank you for reading my
uninteresting wall of text (It's a bad habit of mine), and thank you for the support.
Truth is, it's one or the other. BASIC can not produce low-level functionality, but this does not mean BASIC is not powerfull. The
true power of BASIC lies with it's simplicity and quick use. Unfortunately, this also comes with downsides, which have left me in
this dilemma for ages.
Thank you for listening, I will still be reading and posting replies on this thread, however this might still be my last thread. So
I at least want to give a proper goodbye.
Cheers!