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Post by sarossell on Mar 4, 2020 10:23:44 GMT -5
Hell, you could call it "Flarn Cafuffle v.13 alfa build 2^98-3", I'd still choose it over everything else 'cuz it's just better!
:@)
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hap2u
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by hap2u on Mar 6, 2020 19:24:15 GMT -5
Comment: "BASIC is an acronym. It stands for "Beginners' All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code"
Reply: After 40 or more years, most no longer think of the acronym, but rather what the subjective meaning now is! 'Basic all purpose simple instruction code'. I rightly or wrongly, after more than 40 years, think this way! At about 120 commands JB/LB is about right, after 150 commands, created Functions might be superior to creating more command bloat. I stopped checking out Pure Basic when I saw it had 1600 commands, I thought PB was bad at about 500.
Comment: GitHub does have some useful features. However, I think this group has found the Rosetta Code site more appealing for sharing code. And I can't disagree with that sentiment. It's an awkward site with some odd organizational choices, but it has a more approachable interface. GitHub comes across more like "You want this or what?!"
Reply: Perhaps I have the wrong idea about GitHub, to me it is a place to organize a software project rather than a shareware site. Thanks for letting me know about the 'Rosetta Code site' I will have to check it out more closely at a later date.
Comment: I recall that Sinclair BASIC handled variables in a similar manner; PI$="3.1415926" : PRINT PI$(3 TO) ==> "1415926". However, Mid$, Left$ and Right$ have long been mainstream industry standard commands since they were first introduced back in the late 1970s.
Reply: That does not mean these commands are better than the ZX81 Sinclair's method, just that they were forced on the BASIC PC coder by Microsoft. The mathematical Sinclair system is easy to use and like metric makes more sense. Marketing wise having a better product which would be the case with string splitting, along with the legacy functions make for good marketing copy.
As I work on translating PB to JB/LB I am noticing small things like no Rtrim$(), Ltrim$() commands. You can make a trim$ function from the Rtrim, Ltrim$ so take away Trim$ and create the other two commands? Being new to LB they may exist and I have just not realized same. [:-) I would like a left pane that was expandable in size with <-->, also differing views with multiple clicks on task bar ICON. Now does this stuff qualify as a Wishlist? All in all I like this basic very much high marks to its creators!
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Post by timfung5 on Mar 6, 2020 20:19:00 GMT -5
Liberty Basic really needs a brilliant name. Liberty Basic Studio! Most potential customers may have full confidences in this new name. Moreover, Just Basic should be changed to the free version of Liberty Basic Studio. Therefore, there will be two versions of Liberty Basic Studio. Free version and paid version. Both current official forums should be combined into one single official forum. 1 + 1 will be > 2 sure!!!!!!!!!
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Post by sarossell on Mar 6, 2020 22:15:38 GMT -5
Liberty Basic really needs a brilliant name. Liberty Basic Studio! Most potential customers may have full confidences in this new name. Moreover, Just Basic should be changed to the free version of Liberty Basic Studio. Therefore, there will be two versions of Liberty Basic Studio. Free version and paid version. Both current official forums should be combined into one single official forum. 1 + 1 will be > 2 sure!!!!!!!!! REALBasic changed their name to Real Studio in 2010. When that failed miserably, they changed the name to XOJO, a horrible pseudo-acronym meaning "X (for cross) platform ObJect Orientation". How that's for a stretch? They're doing okay now, but it's not BASIC.
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Post by sarossell on Mar 6, 2020 23:11:41 GMT -5
After 40 or more years, most no longer think of the acronym, but rather what the subjective meaning now is! 'Basic all purpose simple instruction code'. I rightly or wrongly, after more than 40 years, think this way. -- Most decidedly, wrong. BASIC is an acronym comprised of specific words to convey a direct, unambiguous definition, penned by two Princeton University educated professors of mathematics - one of them, a PhD. No one gets to change the meaning 'cuz it feels that way. It is not "simple". It is "Symbolic". There is no room for interpretation. There is no confusion that warrants lazy, revisionist, historical editing.
-- Hey, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the mathematical precision of Sinclair's string slicing method (after all, my first computer was a ZX81). But Microsoft did NOT introduce the MID/RIGHT/LEFT commands. In 1975, Microsoft's Altair BASIC, BASIC-86 and MS BASIC did not include the commands until two years later after Apple's Steve Wozniak licensed and altered the source code for the Apple II to include the new commands in early April 1977. Commodore later released the PET that same year with the same new commands. By 1979, Atari had sealed the deal with their 400 and 800 models. The MID/RIGHT/LEFT commands had become the industry standard a full year before Sinclair existed.
Sinclair was way behind the industry in this case. The MID/RIGHT/LEFT commands had already seen over two years of use on the three most popular platforms; Apple, Commodore and Atari. By January 1980, Clive wanted to include the MID/RIGHT/LEFT commands in the ROM for the ZX80, but he could only afford the 4K ROMS at the time and there simply wasn't enough space. Then in 1981 for his ZX81 he had an 8K ROM, but the thermal printer rotines required the space, so they got shoved aside again. Finally, with the ZX Spectrum, it was the microdrive routines that ate up all the memory. By this time, string slicing had become an unavoidable legacy compatibility issue with ZX BASIC and it simply became the Sinclair standard.
So, if you want to blame somebody, blame Wozniak I guess.
-- Trim left + Trim Right = 2 processes. Trim once and MAYBE add space later = fewer processes. I'm good.
I CAN agree with you wholeheartedly about one thing though; metric is just better. Period. There's just no room for debate on that one. But that's because it's based on science, not the length of some long dead king's forearm.
:@)
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Post by timfung5 on Mar 8, 2020 1:44:35 GMT -5
Liberty Basic really needs a brilliant name. Liberty Basic Studio! Most potential customers may have full confidences in this new name. Moreover, Just Basic should be changed to the free version of Liberty Basic Studio. Therefore, there will be two versions of Liberty Basic Studio. Free version and paid version. Both current official forums should be combined into one single official forum. 1 + 1 will be > 2 sure!!!!!!!!! REALBasic changed their name to Real Studio in 2010. When that failed miserably, they changed the name to XOJO, a horrible pseudo-acronym meaning "X (for cross) platform ObJect Orientation". How that's for a stretch? They're doing okay now, but it's not BASIC. I have a superior idea. We should learn from the names of other popular BASIC languages. Two modern BASIC languages are quite popular. They are PureBasic and FreeBASIC. In fact, pure and free are adjectives. Therefore, I suggest that liberty is replaced by liberal. Furthermore, only one word is used. In conclusion, LiberalBASIC is my objective suggestion. I hope that LiberalBASIC will be very successful and very popular!!!!!!!!
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Post by sarossell on Mar 8, 2020 3:42:06 GMT -5
I hope that LiberalBASIC will be very successful and very popular!!!!!!!! I like your approach. I too considered the names of several versions of BASIC; over fifty of them in fact. The greatest number of them were acronyms, followed by nouns, then adjectives, then verbs, and finally animals. Most of the more current popular names were adjectives, as you said.
Sadly, in roughly half of the United States, the word "Liberal" is a term just slightly worse than the "N" word.
We could get clever and call it "CBTJD" by using the letter immediately after each letter of the original name "BASIC". We could market it as the next inevitable step in the evolution of programming.
"CBTJD": C.oding B.ASIC T.akes J.udicious D.edication.
:@)
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ntech
New Member
Posts: 49
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Post by ntech on Mar 8, 2020 21:02:01 GMT -5
Maybe inventing a cool sounding word word, like KhronosBASIC or PharoBASIC?
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Post by timfung5 on Mar 9, 2020 9:03:27 GMT -5
Sadly, in roughly half of the United States, the word "Liberal" is a term just slightly worse than the "N" word.
I see. Thanks for your comments. Finally, I have these amazing ideas: 1. UniqueBASIC 2. NotOnlyBASIC 3. WhyBASIC 4. ProfessionalBASIC 5. GreatBASIC 6. HugeBASIC 7. BetterBASIC 8. PerfectBASIC 9. CompleteBASIC 10. VeryBASIC I hope that one of them will be selected for use at last.
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Post by sarossell on Mar 9, 2020 15:17:42 GMT -5
Ah! Some very clever choices. I do like how some of them don't just apologize for BASIC, but rather embrace and even celebrate it. VeryBASIC is giving no quarter to criticism. It's BASIC - VERY BASIC. BetterBASIC seems a bit snooty. And ProfessionalBASIC seems like it's trying to hump Visual Basic's leg. But why does CompleteBASIC somehow feel so warm and fuzzy? Like "You can stop searching. I've been BASIC for nearly 30 years folks. I've got BASIC figured out! This sh#t is complete, yo!"
:@)
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Post by timfung5 on Mar 9, 2020 18:09:08 GMT -5
Ah! Some very clever choices. I do like how some of them don't just apologize for BASIC, but rather embrace and even celebrate it. VeryBASIC is giving no quarter to criticism. It's BASIC - VERY BASIC. BetterBASIC seems a bit snooty. And ProfessionalBASIC seems like it's trying to hump Visual Basic's leg. But why does CompleteBASIC somehow feel so warm and fuzzy? Like "You can stop searching. I've been BASIC for nearly 30 years folks. I've got BASIC figured out! This sh#t is complete, yo!" :@) Thanks for your comments again. Now we look forward to Carl's choice. Which name will Carl choose? The situation looks like a beauty pageant.
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Post by sarossell on Mar 9, 2020 19:50:23 GMT -5
Ah! Some very clever choices. I do like how some of them don't just apologize for BASIC, but rather embrace and even celebrate it. VeryBASIC is giving no quarter to criticism. It's BASIC - VERY BASIC. BetterBASIC seems a bit snooty. And ProfessionalBASIC seems like it's trying to hump Visual Basic's leg. But why does CompleteBASIC somehow feel so warm and fuzzy? Like "You can stop searching. I've been BASIC for nearly 30 years folks. I've got BASIC figured out! This sh#t is complete, yo!" :@) Thanks for your comments again. Now we look forward to Carl's choice. Which name will Carl choose? The situation looks like a beauty pageant. Well, in the end, he could choose to keep the names exactly as they are. Just 'cuz a bunch of gum-flappin' nerds like myself get to yackin' about upending everything doesn't mean it has to happen. Either way, I'm thrilled to see whatever comes of version 5.
:@)
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Post by metro on Mar 9, 2020 20:13:29 GMT -5
Well, in the end, he could choose to keep the names exactly as they are. Just 'cuz a bunch of gum-flappin' nerds like myself get to yackin' about upending everything doesn't mean it has to happen. Either way, I'm thrilled to see whatever comes of version 5.
:@) Interesting talent the ability to be textually verbose and flap ya gums at the same time
thought I'd save ya the trouble
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Post by logical1 on Mar 13, 2020 2:47:15 GMT -5
The following phrase is very true and I think any business trying to market a product or range of products should take account of it when branding.
“People don’t buy what you do, they buy why you do it “
Martin Luther King did not start his spearheaded with “ I have an idea “. He started it with “ I believe “
The name isn’t as important as “why you have passion for Liberty BASIC and why you want to share it.
Just my thoughts.
Regards L
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Post by sarossell on Mar 13, 2020 9:35:28 GMT -5
“People don’t buy what you do, they buy why you do it “ Nice! That's Simon Sinek from his book, "Start With Why". He continues with "...And what you do simply proves what you believe.”
So, why do YOU program with Liberty BASIC? I'll start with my short list of what I do which may prove what I believe about Liberty BASIC.
- I believe I need applications that do things either nobody else has written an app to do or not as well as I can.
- I believe I enjoy the easy, god-like, creative environment that no other programming language provides me.
- I believe the commitment to remain true to the original intent of the BASIC language while also evolving to accommodate new standards is what makes Liberty BASIC a superior choice.
- I believe the nostalgic sensation I get from using Liberty BASIC is conducive to my mental well-being.
- I believe I'm starting to sound like a Baptist preacher.
How about you?
:@)
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